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Post by beefy12 on Feb 24, 2003 22:31:31 GMT -5
How many people saw the Kok vs Mehring match?
What did you think of the match?
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Post by beefy12 on Feb 24, 2003 22:34:41 GMT -5
I felt like Mehring wrestled a great match and kinda got it taken away by the refs. I mean he had kok on his back twice and didn't get any back points. Then in the overtime he clearly had the takedown yet the ref didn't make the call. I thought the match was poorly officiated and Mehring should have won. He should have placed, and how can the ref make that big of a mistake at a state tournament?  |
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Post by Digger on Feb 24, 2003 23:04:30 GMT -5
I only saw the overtime but I thought mehring had the takedown and the win.
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Post by SweetPea on Feb 25, 2003 10:18:18 GMT -5
I never saw the match, but I watched the coach throw his papers, not once, but twice onto the mat, so it looked like he was REALLY upset about the outcome of the match!
Its very frustrating to be involved, or have a kid involved in a sport where a ref has SO much power...and we have to sit by powerlessly and just take whatever call they wish to throw out there. I understand that refs are not always 100% every day--they're humans and they make mistakes. I also read the post from the ref who was accused in the Minot Daily News of 'taking the match away' from Nesheim. He was also accused on this site for being arrogant...I do not know any refs personally, so I do not want to pass judgement. I do think that there are MANY arrogant people involved in sports..and refereeing is not the place to be arrogant and stubborn.
The ref responded back---see the thread under the heading of Nesheim--and stated that refs have to watch the match in Black and White, the audience watches it in color, and the team, coaches and parents of that team watch it in Maroon and Gold (or whatever colors your team may wear.) I agree with that. Wrestling teams, coaches and parents form a much tighter bond than in any other sport because of how much time we all spend together at tournaments. There's a huge amount of loyalty, like none I've seen in other sports! The emotions run very high when one of 'our own' gets what we feel is a bad call.
So what do we do about it? Sit on this thread and complain? Mr. Gums stated in his article in the tournament edition of the Grappler that wrestling is being dropped at many colleges across the country, and I believe that his view was it was because of title 1X. Could it be instead that the credibility of wrestling is suffering because of parents and fans who are always bashing the refs? We all go back to our schools and towns and tell everyone that the loss was because of bad refs...poor calls, etc.
I've often wished we could have reviews of the calls..like they do in the NFL..but that's not realistic is it? It would be very expensive to have a digital camera installed over every mat at tournaments. So what are the alternatives? Fans are frustrated..refs are frustrated..what's the solution?
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Huskie
Junior Member
Posts: 41
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Post by Huskie on Feb 25, 2003 11:35:12 GMT -5
The solution is to sit back and keep one's mouth shut about officiating. Ref's just don't "throw out" calls as you alluded to in the previous post. We are in a very precarious position on the mat. Fans, parents and others are essential to the sport of wrestling. If we don't have them, we don't have a sport. I have witnessed hundreds of times where parents will yell at an official and the parent does not know the rules. This to me is the biggest factor in the poor sportsmanship that I see at many duals and tournaments. Regarding the Mehring and Kok match. I did not have a good view of the takedown in overtime. But, there is such a thing called reaction time to a takedown. If the official felt that there was no control, then so be it. I think that many fans need to bone up on the rules and quit posting about officials on this site. If you would like, call Dave Carlsrud at the NDHSAA and get some information on how you can ref. If not, please leave the officials alone. Their job is hard enough without this kind of crap being posted on a site that is supposed to be positive!!!
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Post by SweetPea on Feb 25, 2003 12:20:53 GMT -5
Huskie: Speaking of keeping things on this site 'positive,'your solution to 'sit back and keep one's mouth shut about officiating' didn't sound like a very positive (or realistic) response. As long as people are breathing, they are going to be offering their opinions, and they may not always be the same opinion as mine or yours.  With all the Techology advances that we have going on, it would be nice if there weresomething out there to make the refs job easier and less stressful...No? |
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Post by Krusedog on Feb 25, 2003 12:47:28 GMT -5
I'm glad somebody else posted on this. I wanted to, but I don't think I could have controlled myself earlier on. Of all the matches that I watched at state, this is the only one that really upset me. In general, the refs at state did an amazing job, but Mehring frankly was screwed over in OT. Kok was done with both hands and both knees on the mat, and Mehring was basically in referees position. I haven't talked to a single person who actually viewed the match that doesn't feel that this was a takedown.
Kok was seeded first, but he didn't wrestle up to that seed, and should have doubled out. I know the refs do their best, but when you have two refs on the mat, one of them ought to be able to make this call.
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Post by fordville on Feb 25, 2003 14:13:35 GMT -5
Here is some info I saw on the Guilotine, MN wrestling web page...looks like somebody from MN liked the refs and wrestlers in ND
ND refs
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I took in the ND state tournament last weekend and I was very impressed with the quality of refs in their state. Honestly, some of the best I have seen for quite some time. Good wrestling refs are not easy to come by, but I would like to know what it would take to get some of those refs to travel east a little ways? I know we have tough wrestling in MN, but for the population of their state I was very impressed with the quality of wrestlers.....TOUGH!!
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Post by BigStud on Feb 25, 2003 19:35:08 GMT -5
Blair...i completely agree with you...i know reffing is tough, and you're a great one. I felt bad about the way i worded my post on the other thread,reading your comment after mine i realized that i might have sounded judgemental to refs, but i pointed out that i have nothing against any ref that's ever officiated one of my matches or anything like that. A lot of refs in the state know me by name and talk to me when they're not reffing. It's just that in that match there were 3 opportunities for Grant to have won the match, he outwrestled my friend Brandon Kok, i dont know what else to say. Congratulations Grant, you still have 2 years, keep workin hard. Kruse Dog, you are the man.
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Post by DLwrestler on Feb 25, 2003 20:49:44 GMT -5
The Mehring vs. Kok match was right in front of me and i know there was at least one point in the match when Mehring should have got back points and he clearly had the takedown in overtime. I was wondering why the other referee didn't do anything about it.
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Post by BigStud on Feb 25, 2003 22:39:08 GMT -5
Thank you for bringing that up DLwrestler....My dad noticed that, i dont know how with how much anger and frustration that we had going through our stands...but can anyone tell me why the "non active" ref didnt do anything about it? my dad told me he looked pretty pissed off at the call but didnt do anything. Blair?
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Post by BigStud on Feb 25, 2003 23:44:43 GMT -5
This one's eating away at me...anyone? why did the second ref not do anything???!??!?!
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Post by Fezz45 on Feb 25, 2003 23:57:52 GMT -5
I was so mad after watching this match i had tears in my eyes. The officiating job was terrible. How can you screw a kid out of placing at state? Arnt the refs at state supposed to be the best North Dakota has to offer. I just feel that both of the refs at that mat werent doing their jobs. They favored Kok because he was the #1 guy in state and he was going to get elimintated after the first two rounds
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Post by tiki149 on Feb 26, 2003 0:11:36 GMT -5
I didn't see the Mehring/Kok match, but heard much about it. I thought the officiating that the state tournament this year was not very good. There were a few guys that knew what they were doing. But also I was told that one official had only done one match the whole year. That doesn't get you ready. The matches I questioned were Kok/Mehring, Sunby/Stavn in the semis (Stavn should have had back points on the neck wrench) and Nesheim/Englehardt (two stallings in the last 15 seconds?  ) |
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Post by WrestlingFan on Feb 26, 2003 10:43:44 GMT -5
I agree that a camera could catch what that human eye can't. On a different post, someone thought the class B HVWT match was botched, and that a takedown was given to McCleary that didn't look like a takedown to him while he was sitting in the crowd. Then he said that he watched the footage on the news that night, and it was clearly a takedown. How many of us haven't watched replays of NFL football and been very glad that the camera was there to see if the foot was on the line or over the line when the receiver caught the ball. I betcha that in a few years all sports at all levels will have to have cameras for instant replays. Until then, keep on the refs to stay accountable for mistakes. An instant replay in Mehrings match would show that he won.
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