Justin Decoteau

[fordville]

Levi was beaten a couple times early on by Hase from Harvey, and yes I do feel that 130 is a weaker weight class than 125, not saying these are bad wrestlers by any means, but a weaker weight class yes. 125 is one of the tougher weight classes in quite awhile in class b. Henderson and Chase IN MY OPINION are not as talented as Kerr and Hase, it is also my belief that Levi would have a better chance at beating either one of these wrestlers than beating Kerr or Hase...and that was proven as Levi nearly beat Henderson at east/west...lost in overtime criteria. It appears Levi and his coaches have the same opinion. I am not picking on Justin, but he had very strong beliefs in one of his earlier posts that Levi would not be moving up to 130 and didn't want anyone to make an accusation that he would be. TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT, LEVI HAS A MUCH BETTER CHANCE OF WINNING ANOTHER STATE TITLE AT 130 THAN 125....FACT.

[DFreeman]

I don't think he'll win it at either weight. I agree the top 2 guys are tougher at 125 but 130 as a whole weight class is better and I agree with fordville, the only reason he moved up is because he thinks he has a better shot at 130.

[cowcatcher]

Ditto on the last two remarks about this topic. I feel Mr. Haugen is dodging Kerr and Hase also so that he may try and win another state title. I guess you can't begrudge a person for trying!! And I'm sure his Dad, his coaches, and himself made the choice and Mr. Lee just so happened to be his sacrificial lamb. If I recall there was a few threads previously from someone on the Minot Ryan team who was frustrated about this whole situation and felt the same way as alot of people. I don't want this to be a Levi Haugen bashing again so I'll let it go now.

Cowcatcher

[6waitingfor7]

Fordville:

"Haugen is not moving up to better his team's chances in the individual tournament, he is moving up because he feels he cannot win at 125...period. This is not a team move. "

EJ:

I think it is worth the risk for the Minot Ryan team. Schweitzer has an excellent chance at placing at 125#. Haugen has a better chance at making the finals at 130 than he does at 125. Chase Lee would have a more difficult time placing at a very deep 130 (Chris Chase, state champ is a #6 seed!!!!) than Schweitzer will have at placing at a very top-heavy 125#.

By the way, did you personally talk to the Minot Ryan coaches and ask them why they allowed this? I didn't, so I am not going to say that my reason above is exactly why they did, but it makes a lot more sense to me than what your version is.

Fordville:

"Also, it may be easy to say to the kid to certify a weight below your anticipated weight, but remember, he cannot all of a sudden go back down a weight at regionals when he has been wrestling above that all year. You can only wrestle up so many times before your lighter certification is void. This can happen in MN but not in North Dakota."

EJ:

You're flat out wrong on the 2nd part. A wrestler is eligible to compete at the lower weight class if one-half of his weigh-ins are at the lower weight. The "ups" rule to which you are referring was eliminated a few years ago. As for a kid who does certify at a lower weight, he AND his coach need to understand that it is in the kid's and team's best interest for him to meet this weigh-in requirement. I will use Neil Veen as an example here. Neil wrestled several matches this year at 145#, but the majority of his weigh-ins were at 135# and 140#. He retained his eligibility for 140, despite only wrestling that weight class about three times all season. That type of flexibility allowed Pazdernik to move up Joe Irmen (#1 seed) and get Veen (#1 seed) a better position than who would've had at 145#.

Fordville:

"EJ, think about what you are saying."

EJ: I did!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fordville]

BJ HEWITT....
Obviously we disagree as to why Levi moved up to 130, you have your opinion and I have mine. I still don't see your argument on weight certification. As you mentioned, kids need to wrestle so many matches at their certified weight. Example, I could not certify at 103 in December and wrestle 112 the rest of the year and then move back down come regionals. I can certify at 103, wrestle that weight all year, and then at regionals decide to wrestle 112. Veen was obviously certified at 35, he can wrestle wherever he wants above that weight if he wishes come regionals. It would be a dumb coaching move to have your kids suck weight just to certify at a weight close below their expected weight class, and yet get in half the matches, "just in case a better wrestler at the end of the year decided to bump up a weight class for his personal goals." Just when I thought wrestling was starting to get a better image with less weight cutting you as a coach propose this?

[xbox]

Anyone out there jealous? And if Levi did move up a weight class to win state, so be it! Fordville I think that you are jealous, cause you probably have a son at 130, who can't beat Levi. I don't want this to turn into a Levi bashing post. I am sure the coaches at Ryan thought about what is going to happen, the goals and consequences on both ends. Looks like to me that they made the right decision, if Levi didn't bump up, would Ryan have won the region tournament? Think about it, Chase Lee would have been seeded third, and never made it to the finals at 130, Schweitzer wins regionals with a pin and Haugen defeats Peterson from Stanley, to move away from Kenmare. Great decision on the part of the coaches, and if this decision helps Levi in reaching his goals, then so be it, thats what coaches are for!

[Lstockert]

All Respondents:

I have watched these young men in 125 and 130 for a very long time (age 5 or so). These two classes contain some of North Dakota's BEST and it will be exciting to see all of this talent concentrated in these two weight divisions. Can't wait to see the result of many years of hard work and a mountain of experience coming to fruition.

LStockert

[6waitingfor7]

Fordville:

As you mentioned, kids need to wrestle so many matches at their certified weight.

EJ:

No, I didn't say that. What I said is they need to weigh-in at the certified weight. They can wrestle one weight class above their weigh- in weight.

Fordville:

Example, I could not certify at 103 in December and wrestle 112 the rest of the year and then move back down come regionals. I can certify at 103, wrestle that weight all year, and then at regionals decide to wrestle 112.

EJ:

Once again, it's not where you wrestle, but rather where you weigh in. If you have 16 weigh- ins during the year, then at least 8 must be at the lower weight to be eligible for that lower weight.


Fordville:

"Veen was obviously certified at 35, he can wrestle wherever he wants above that weight if he wishes come regionals."

EJ:

Many of his matches were wrestled at 145#, but he only weighed in at 135# a few times and all the other weigh- ins after the Rotary were at 140#. Had the majority of his weigh- ins been at 145#, then he would not have been able to go to 140#. As it was, he was not eligible to wrestle at 135# at the regional tournament because he didn't have at least half his weigh- ins at 135#.


Fordville:

It would be a dumb coaching move to have your kids suck weight just to certify at a weight close below their expected weight class, and yet get in half the matches, "just in case a better wrestler at the end of the year decided to bump up a weight class for his personal goals."

EJ:

The word "expected" is the problem here. Coaches need the options at the end of the year. Just like Justin said earlier, at the time he made his statement about Levi, that is what they were planning on doing with him. As the season progresses, certain changes are needed to make a team better. It is the coaches job to make sure he has options available when those times arise. Unfortunately for Chase Lee, the way to make Ryan's team better was by moving Levi up and inserting Schweitzer. I will not speculate on whether Lee is better than Schweitzer, but it doesn't matter, as Lee is apparently ineligible for the 125# class.

As far as getting in only half the matches, I never said kids couldn't wrestle. They would sometimes need to weigh in at a lower weight class, but then wrestle up.


Fordville:

"Just when I thought wrestling was starting to get a better image with less weight cutting you as a coach propose this?"

EJ:

I propose that coaches give themselves as many options as possible at the end of the year to make their teams as competitive as they can be. If that means a kid weighs in enough times to be eligible for the lower weight class at the end of the year, then yes I am proposing this. However, before you or anyone else think I don't care about a kid's health, remember that each of the kids that does this has gone through a weight permitting process at the beginning of the season. Those rules were put into place to prevent "excess" weight cutting to make sure no wrestler goes to an unsafe weight.

Another thing, not all wrestlers can wrestle at their natural weight and be successful. Some kids need to lose a bit of weight while maintaining their strength.

Finally, Fordville, please don't make me out to be some type of "Ogre" coach with the "image" statement. If those are your personal feelings about me after explaining myself, then I respect your right to have that opinion. Let each reader of this board decide for himself/ herself whether I am promoting something that is harmful to the image of wrestling. As I said, I promote having the best possible team available for the post- season, the season that REALLY matters.


Now, Fordville, go ahead and respond OR find me at the state tournament and we can discuss this matter personally. I will be hanging out with the Carrington team and fans, so I won't be hard to find. I will not try to force my beliefs onto you, but rather explain in more detail why I feel the way I do.

EJHewitt

[Lstockert]

EJ Hewitt:
Let me begin by sying that I have a great deal of respect for the North Dakota Coaches - They work tirelessly and have provided many opportunites for our children to succeed in their chosen sport. I would never criticize their efforts: However, I know that more is required than what can be acheived in the season.
If a young man comes into the wrestling room unprepared for the season then he may not be able to wrestle at his natural weight. If on the other hand he has prepared himself I doubt that he will have to do anything more except to concentrate on his technique and conditioning. (ie) Jerry Halmrast used to require that his wrestlers go out for Cross-Country in order to wrestle. As I have already said - the wrestling season is far too short for all of this to happen IN season - that is why preparation is essential for peak performance and maximum safety. I beleive that if off season training is done right that training out of season will allow him to wrestle at his natural weight and feel successful doing it.

If the Athlete is overweight then the off season training wil help to correct that problem. It also helps improve the young athletes self-image and crystallizes his goals. In addition, one of the most critical benefits is that it helps to reduce the risk of injury.

I am sure that you will agree that EACH ATHLETE SHOULD HAVE TRAINING GOALS ESTABLISHED BY COMPETENT PROFESSIONALS THAT ARE SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO FIT HIS ATHLETIC PROFILE AND SPORT. Included in this is informed parents who understand nutrition and who promote healthy lifestyles for their children.

I know that the wrestling regs control these weight matters and I also know that no coach worth his salt would ever try to violate or skirt these regs, nor am I implying that any coach has ever done so. Afterall, we do have some of the Nations best coaches here in ND who really do care about our children - obviously your included in that group.. All that I am really saying is that I think that there is a better way which has to include the parents of the athlete working in tandem with his coaches which will help everyone acheive their goals and feel like they have really accomplished something.

LStockert

[luv2pin]

This issue is getting old. I visited with Levi's father earlier in the season and suggested to them that Levi should move up a weight class or 2. When weight gets in the way of wrestling, you are setting yourself up for failure. Levi grew alot since last year and for his sake and his love for wrestling, this was his best decision. When my son was an 8th grader, there were 2 wrestlers waiting their turn (Ryan Stockert & Mike Lund)
who did not make the team that year. Look what a year in the room did for them. Sometimes this method only makes the kids hungrier for the sport and the passion takes over. I wish there was a spot on a team for every kid who loves the sport, if Mr Lee hangs in there & wrestles with Levi and learns everything he knows, look how tough that could make him in the years to come.

[Lstockert]

All Respondents:

There are some real feelings at play here and only time and effort will change them. I agree with Luv2Pin - Mr Lee remain steadfast - keep working, train hard this summer, give it everything you've got and don't give up until you have reached your goals. Further, Do not make the mistake of assuming that your coach and other people do not care about you because we have all publicly stated the contrary. Here is the tough part - Support the members of your team and your coach - even if it hurts you to do so. Part of becoming a true champion is learning how to live with dissappointment and to keep working in spite of those feelings. I look forward to seeing your name in the list of two-time State Champions.

Remember these words if you get discouraged - they worked for Ryan.

"I will study and prepare myself and perhaps my time will come."

LStockert

[Huskie]

I also feel that this issue is a dead one. It happened, it is over, please leave it at that. It was a decision by the coaches and those of you who are bashing Levi for moving up obviously don't know the whole story. You should wish all wrestlers luck and leave it at that.

[Lstockert]

Huskie:

True enough - the issue is settled except that Mr. Lee needs to be encouraged by all to continue his pursuit of a wrestling title. Stay at it Mr. Lee until you acheive what you originally set out to acheive.

LStockert